Complaining about poor sound at Blur at Hyde Park - the big post
I have reached a resolution to my dispute with promoters Live Nation over the terrible sound at the Blur gig they put on. As promised I’m writing the whole thing up. Apologies to any regular readers who don’t care - this is mostly so I can link to it elsewhere.
The short version:
- I paid lots of money for tickets to a Blur gig in Hyde Park.
- I stood in what any regular concert goer would consider a reasonable spot and could barely hear the band. People around me as far as I could hear booed and chanted ‘TURN IT UP!’.
- I discovered that similar problems at Hyde Park concerts were now a regular thing.
- I wrote to promoters Live Nation and kept writing until they responded. Then I wrote to the Concert Promoters Association to report them breaking their code of conduct.
- Live Nation eventually offered me free tickets to a Hyde Park concert of my choice next year.
- However they still refused to admit any fault, and (important point here) cited the ‘negligible’ number of complaints as evidence. I would love it if people took similar action and prevented them from being able to use this excuse in future.
The long version:
The concert was on 12th August.
Me to Live Nation, 14th August:
Dear LiveNation,
I am writing to this address as it was suggested by the BT London Live account on twitter as the best place to address complaints about Sunday’s Blur gig at Hyde Park. It was the most disappointing show that I have ever been to, and the fault lies entirely with the organisers.I ended up missing most of The Specials’ set due to the length of the queues, but it was Blur that I was there to see. For their set I was positioned fairly close to the front, towards the left of the crowd. When Blur started playing, the sound was at a pathetically low volume and they were frequently drowned out not only by the crowd singing along, but also by people talking at a normal conversational volume. On any song that wasn’t acoustic, the sound also sounded flattened out and ugly as well as far too quiet. I have found out since that some pockets of the crowd had better sound. Being towards the front of the very large crowd, it was too crowded for us to easily move anywhere to find out if sound would be any better. Regardless, this should never be something which the audience is required to do anyway.I can tell you from my experience of hundreds of concerts that no others have ever had sound remotely as bad, but as further evidence vast numbers of people were chanting “turn it up!” after every song and sometimes booing. When seeing one of your favourite bands, especially at what is rumoured to be their last ever show, that is not a step that anyone would take lightly, but I was clearly not alone in feeling like I was getting no enjoyment from it and needed to try to get the message across somehow. It proved futile. Online comments such as on the Guardian’s review of the show also back up that there were a very large number of people who felt that the concert was ruined.Allowing the whole crowd to be able to hear the band that they’ve paid to hear is about the most basic requirement for putting on a concert, and you failed at it. If the reason for the quiet volume is because of noise complaints and the local council’s restrictions, then the only acceptable response on your part should have been to stop holding concerts somewhere which is clearly no longer fit for purpose, rather than continuing to take people’s money and giving them a terrible experience in return.What we received in return for £120 (for tickets for myself and my girlfriend) was of a totally unacceptable quality and you should be offering refunds to me and anyone else who had to suffer from this.Regards,Iain
Standard reply the same day:
Thank you for contacting Live Nation customer support, your question has been received. We aim to respond to all enquiries by the end of the next business day, though sometimes that is not possible during busy periods e.g. during the summer when we have a lot of shows and festivals running. Please be assured that your email is important to us and that we will respond as soon as we are able.
Me to Live Nation, 29 August:
Live Nation,While it is indeed summer, ten business days have now passed since I made the complaint below and I have received only this holding reply. I would appreciate an update on when I am going to receive a full reply and refund.Thanks,Iain
Me to Live Nation, 13 September:
Dear Live Nation,
I wrote to you on the 14th August regarding your abject failure to put on a gig to an acceptable standard (text of that message included below). I received a holding response stating that you aim to reply within one business day. Nearly two weeks later, I sent a follow up email asking when I would be receiving a reply and refund. Two further weeks have now passed, and still I have received no further contact.
I realise that I haven’t included all of the details that you ask for on
your website when making a complaint, so in the hopes that this may speed
up your process I include these now:
* Name of event, date and venue: BT London Live: Closing Ceremony
Celebration Concert, 12/08/12, Hyde Park
* Order number: [nope]
* Full contact details of the purchaser: [nope]
Regardless, the fact that you have failed to respond in reasonable time to my complaint has only furthered the very strong impression that you do not care about the experience of your paying customers.
I intend to write to the Concert Promoters Association as there is a strong case that you have gone against terms 1, 3 and 4 of their code of conduct by failing to deal with my complaint and by failing to provide all relevant information by not clearly stating the remarkable low volume of the concert in advance. I will continue to pursue any other avenues required to get a just resolution.
Regards,
Iain
Response the same day:
[Mr F],
Thank you for your email, I am very sorry it has taken so long to close your complaint. This has been an incredibly busy year for us and my time has unfortunately been limited to deal with the feedback we have received following our summer events.
At our Hyde Park concerts the sound is higher towards the centre and stage left in recognition of the residents on Park Lane, though there is more than enough room around the arena and I am sorry you did not choose to move to find an area more to your satisfaction.
Whilst there are small pockets of the arena that have lower volume than other parts, many customers choose to stand within these areas as they prefer a lower volume.
There are overall noise restrictions at this venue, but we are entirely confident the sound at this concert was of an appropriate volume and quality in the vast majority of the arena. The artist’s sound engineers were also happy with the sound reproduction, though we recognise it was not to the level that some attendees hoped for or expected, for which we can only apologise. We further appreciate however that this is an entirely subjective matter and what might be right for one person may not be right for another.
It is not possible to replicate an indoor environment at an outdoor concert as the sound does not reverberate around you in the same way. The physics are not possible as the sound is not bouncing off the walls as at an indoor venue. Much of the sound simply goes upwards in to the sky and is lost, despite the huge number of decibels being projected out from the main stage and the delay towers.
I am sorry you appear to have not enjoyed the show as we intended, though I assure you of our best intentions at all times.
Regards,[named Live Nation employee]
Me, the same day again:
Dear Live Nation,Thank you for finally replying to my complaint with your standard template email for Hyde Park low volume complaints. I have read it before here: http://codedraving.tumblr.com/post/27691366959/a-reply-from-live-nation but good to have it confirmed that you are using the same excuses as for previous gigs. That means that you were well aware in advance of the dissatisfaction you would be generating by doing the same again.First of all, hundreds (thousands?) of people around me booing does not suggest a subjective experience and matter of ‘what might be right for one person may not be right for another’.That aside, if there are indeed people who would rather hear the chatter of those around them than the band they paid to see, I now feel almost as bad for them as myself. There must have been lots of quiet-favouring people elsewhere, in just as bad a situation - unknowingly stood in the wrong place, tormented by audible music and not realising that they merely had to force their way through a packed crowd of people, to specific unmarked areas, to remedy the situation.If you intend to continue this deliberate variable volume policy for Hyde Park in future, might I suggest that you introduce large signs saying ‘QUIET ZONE HERE’ and regular on-stage announcements directing people to the left or right of the stage depending on their volume preferences? Perhaps in future, rather than checking on the front and back of the crowd, singers will say “Is everyone in the loud zone ok? And everyone in the quiet zone?”. Though I imagine the response from the latter will be somewhat muted.Since you did not yet introduce such measures, it is wrong to expect concert-goers to deduce that different sides of the stage with no visible difference have different volumes. It is therefore completely unreasonable to expect audience members to force their way around after a performance has started to find the good spots - not something which I have ever previously found necessary in my long experience of attending gigs, not just inside but also outside with that problematic sky.Vastly variable volume is very relevant information for the audience to know about. Therefore I will indeed be writing to the Concert Promoters Association about your clear failure to comply with clause 4 of the code of conduct -‘Members shall recognise the right of the public to accurate information about the concerts they are promoting and shall strive to ensure that all relevant information, especially in relation to changes in an advertised programme, is made available to ticket holders and members of the public as soon as possible’- and seeking to take this further as necessary.Regards,Iain
Me to the Concert Promoters Association, same day again:
Dear [CPA secretary],I write to inform you of a breach of the Concert Promoters Association’s code of conduct by Live Nation, one of your member organisations. Primarily they have breached principle 4, although I would also question whether they have satisfied 1 and 3 in their dealings with me.I attended the BT London Live Closing Ceremony concert which they organised on 12 August. The sound was of a poor quality and at an unsatisfactorily low volume which completely ruined the experience as I could not hear the band, Blur, that I had paid to see and hear. I wrote to Live Nation to request a refund as they had failed to provide a service to an acceptable level. I have copied my correspondence with them below, minus a further chasing email that was required to get them to respond. They denied any wrongdoing and their response includes these words:
‘At our Hyde Park concerts the sound is higher towards the centre and stage left in recognition of the residents on Park Lane, though there is more than enough room around the arena and I am sorry you did not choose to move to find an area more to your satisfaction.
Whilst there are small pockets of the arena that have lower volume than other parts, many customers choose to stand within these areas as they prefer a lower volume.
There are overall noise restrictions at this venue, but we are entirely confident the sound at this concert was of an appropriate volume and quality in the vast majority of the arena’
Following the concert, I found online evidence that others had had similar correspondence with Live Nation regarding the same issue at previous gigs. See for instance http://codedraving.tumblr.com/post/27691366959/a-reply-from-live-nation. Also there is widespread reporting which shows that my experience was shared by many: http://www.nme.com/blog/index.php?blog=1&title=blur&more=1&c=1&tb=1&pb=1 for instance.From Live Nation’s previous correspondence with others it is clear that they were already well aware that the sound levels at different parts of the Hyde Park arena were very different, even at points equidistant from the stage that would reasonably be expected to be the same, and that areas were unsatisfactory for many people. Indeed, they accept that this was a deliberate choice on their part. Had I known this, I would have placed myself at the other side of the arena as they suggested, but there was no way of me being aware of the difference in the normal course of attending the concert. It is inarguable that vast differences in volume from one side of the arena to the other comes under ‘relevant information’ about the concert that they promoted, as per principle 4 of the code of conduct. They failed to provide this information at any point in any form.Their response has been wholly inadequate and I would appreciate it if you could take action to force them to remedy the situation.Regards,Iain
CPA response the next day:
Dear Iain,
This matter has been referred back to Live Nation and I have been assured that they will be in contact with you.
Kind regards
[CPA secretary]
Email from someone different at Live Nation, the same day:
Iain
This is clearly going round in circles and to no ones benefit. There are many parts to this scenario that you are not aware of and to enable me to explain, would you be willing to let me have a telephone number I can contact you on next week to discuss.
Regards
[Initials of, as it turns out, the Chief Operating Officer]
I replied with my number, but never actually got that phone call. Instead I got this today:
[Mr F],
Thank you for your email. I further note your correspondence with the Concert Promoters Association of which we are a member.
Whilst the sound levels may differ naturally around the arena, due to the location of the speaker delay towers and your proximity to them, we do not agree that the sound production in any area was below what is considered an appropriate volume, though again we fully accept this is subjective.
I have not denied that some other customers have expressed a similar grievance with regards to this matter, but I must add that the number of comments received is negligent when compared to the number of attendees on the day. That is not to dismiss your feedback, but I wish to make it clear that we do not feel this is a widespread issue.
In light of your pursuance of this matter and in an effort to close your complaint amicably, as a gesture of goodwill I would like to offer you two complimentary tickets to the Live Nation promoted Hyde Park concert of your choice next year. Please contact me when you are aware of a concert you would like to attend and I will organise for the tickets to be sent out to you.
I hope this offer meets with your satisfaction and reiterate our assurances of our best intentions at all times.
Regards
[First Live Nation person]
I replied to accept this as a resolution, but noted that I still didn’t agree with their interpretation.
I don’t see any indication that they accept that there is a problem, and don’t think that they will until the number of complaints and level of coverage about future Hyde Park gigs becomes too big for them to ignore.
